Walker Patton, the Chief Commercial Officer at Woody Nelson, recently sat down with Jasper Ly, the owner of Scarborough’s Spiritleaf, to chat about his insights and experiences running a cannabis store. Ly discusses business, gives advice for people hoping to start out, and talks about what it looks like to find success in this industry.
A transcript of this interview has been adapted below. Some responses have been altered slightly for clarity or length.
W: I’ve come to learn that visualizing success is a big one for you. What does that mean and why does it matter?
“Before I made the leap in starting my first business, I read the book Vivid Vision, which my mentor recommended. This book emphasized the importance of having a crystal-clear visualization of your goals and destination. When people go through this exercise, they often visualize that dream car, house, or them hitting a certain number in their bank account. But this book teaches the importance of envisioning all the other aspects of your life that needs to be congruent for your visualization to become real. Things that people usually skip over include the kind of relationships you hope to form, your ideal environment for success, the type of person you’d like to become, or the skills you’d need to develop, and etc. It’s important to be as detailed as possible.
Congruency is crucial and it’s important to not neglect the other variables needed for success. Ultimately, it’s taught me that your financial success can never surpass your level of personal development. You must become it before you can get it! And this includes aspects like your health, state of mind, and relationships. If you only focus on the big shiny objects of your vision, you become vulnerable to certain blind spots. Understanding this and envisioning success in your mind’s eye in the most detailed manner is the first step in making it a reality. Never underestimate the power your mind.”
W: Now that you’ve found that success, how does your vision for the business change?
“When you put in all that hard work and finally find success, you’ll naturally become more confident in yourself. It gives you a new perspective as to what is real and what is achievable. You create a new baseline. You expand your bandwidth. Your stress tolerance. And naturally you will become more ambitious with your vision and goals. The change in your vision is often reflective of the personal development and growth that you go through in the process.
But some things remain the same. I doubled down on things that helped me find my initial success. It was still all about doing the work, showing up, and doing the micro tasks each day that builds the upward spiral of momentum for the business and myself. The bigger my vision, the bigger my team had to be and the more intentional I was about my environment. It’s hard to achieve amazing things all by yourself. I went from being a guy who wore every hat to becoming a master team builder and delegator. The growth and change in my vision put things into perspective – True success is measured by the growth of your freedom.”
W: Cannabis has gone from being highly stigmatized to often celebrated. What has that experience been like for you personally?
“It’s been an enlightening one. Negativity and outside opinions are always going to be there, so it’s about having the right attitude and how you choose to look at it. Perspective is everything. Once you realize that the negative opinions that come your way are usually coming from someone who is either deeply insecure or in a bad place themselves, you’ll begin to have empathy for them. It was a way for me to see who was truly there for me. The ones who will stand by you even when it’s not publicly convenient to do so, are the ones you truly keep.
And if you’re ever letting stigma or scrutiny get in your way, just remember. “A millionaire will never judge someone for starting a business. An athlete will never judge someone for starting at the gym. Only losers will judge you for starting something new.” Hate rarely comes from above.”
W: What are some of the unexpected challenges you’ve had to overcome since launch?
“One of my favourite quotes is “money loves speed, wealth loves time, and poverty loves indecision.” Speed is everything. And it’s entirely true especially with the Cannabis industry. One thing I didn’t expect was just how fast this industry moves. There’s a new trend every week and I’ve seen countless brands and retailers struggle because they either got too complacent or simply reacted too slowly to the market. Every week, there are new products hitting the shelves, new brands entering the game, and new products falling in and out of the rankings of top major product categories. Managing inventory turnover is without a doubt one of the most important elements of running a successful cannabis retail business. Moving product off your shelf is just as important as the new stuff you bring in. Indecision will kill you. Speed is a must.”
W: Can you recall a customer interaction that reminded you of why you love this industry?
“Man, there’s a few but one of the most memorable interactions involves an elderly lady from Markham, who has been relying on our delivery service due to her health issues. We’ve been delivering to her for some time and one day she expressed profound gratitude, sharing her story and how cannabis has significantly improved her quality of life since recovering from a coma and that traditional medications couldn't help. Her appreciation and the warm hug she gave my manager underscored the vital service we provide.
Another poignant moment came when a long-time customer, who had mysteriously stopped visiting, returned to share that she had been battling cancer and was now cancer-free. Her joy and the relief in being able to celebrate this victory with us were incredibly moving. These interactions, along with the growth and development I see in my team, really drive home the impact our work has. It's not just about selling cannabis; it's about fostering relationships and being a supportive pillar in our community, which reinforces every day why we do what we do.”
W: Is there a trend in our industry that you think deserves more attention?
“One concerning trend that’s been ongoing is that the price of cannabis is going down while the price of everything else is going up. It’s becoming a race to the bottom with oversaturation and oversupply in the market. I think we’re going to see more consolidation happen in the industry. But despite these challenges, a trend that’s not talked much about, is the rapid expansion of illicit stores throughout the GTA. They’re still very much around. It's kind of a political and touchy subject, but I think legal operators who play by the rules should be protected and shown further support. We definitely need a bigger spotlight on this.”
W: So of all the products that you've seen come to the market over the last five years, is there one that really stands out in your mind, good or bad?
“This is actually a very funny answer. When I first opened, I remember doing our opening order. We had no idea what we were doing. We were over ordering, had a terrible assortment. They're overpriced. I bought like 5 cases of one product and had no idea why. I just took a guess.
Our opening order was a travesty, but we ordered it in and we're just working through it. First week, second week, and then we're opening up these boxes and I see this one product. I don't know if you remember this product, but I think it was under Tillery at the time. It was a product called The Batch. The logo was a thumbs up. It was in this little container. I'm shaking it. You can hear it crumble, like it's the driest thing I've ever felt in my life. And we ordered 5, 7 cases of it. I had no idea what was happening. I look at the package date, it was old. I don't remember exactly how long the date was, but it was something ridiculous, like almost up to a year old.
We parked it up in our in our inventory room and we just left it there. I'm like, ‘we're not selling this. I don't care how much this costs,we cannot sell this.’ So I just parked it up, and then we're trying to go to the OCS, trying to see [if we] can we return it. Like, ‘what's going on? This thing's old. We want to get a credit return. We kind of want to exchange it.’ We just left it there, and months after months, no response from the OCS. So, we're like, ‘I think we're stuck with this product.’ Every month that went by was another month older. It's just aging.
So I'm like, ‘we got to like do something with this.’ I looked at my manager and I said, ‘OK, know what? Let's just put it on our menu.We're going to discount it. Let’s just move it, get it out of here. If anyone complaints, we'll manage it.’ So we put it up on our menu, and this product was selling like crazy. We were moving like 2 to 3 cases a week. I was so mind blown. It sold like crazy and it was our number one product for like our first year. We were able to mark it up. Eventually we made like 45% margins on it. We were just selling the crap out of it. We were ordering like cases 10 cases every two weeks. It was like our number one product.
Eventually it just disappeared off the OCS and I never saw that product again. Every so often I just looked at my manager and we still reminisce about the batch and how a product we thought was so old, but our customers loved it.
I think that product has always stood out to me. It also taught me a very early lesson in retail; you never know what the customer thinks, you never know what they want, even though you think you might have an opinion. It taught me to never have your own opinion in things; never be emotional about it. You just never know. It's just about what the customer wants.
The batch taught me a lesson that you just have to listen to what the customer wants. If they want it, I just have to bring it in whether I think it's good or not. I think that's one of the most important lessons that not just retailers, but also producers can learn. I've talked to growers who would say, ‘no, that's all crappy weed. This right here is the good weed and this is what people want.’ Then they put it out there and nobody wants to buy it and they're like, ‘why does everyone have such terrible taste in weed? Why don't they like my stuff?’ It turns out, a lot of this is subjective. You know, what flavours you prefer, what effects you prefer. Meeting the customer where they're at has been one of my biggest lessons.”
W: Do you have a process for choosing products that you'd like to share?
“I would say it's easily probably one of the hardest and most important things in running a cannabis shop. When we opened in 2020, it was a free for all. When you open a cannabis store, in general, everyone was figuring it out. No one really taught, no one was there to train and teach you how to order.
Unless you've worked in a different industry and you worked in inventory management, no one really teaches you like, ‘this is how much you should buy. This is how your assortment. This is where you go research.’
It was extremely difficulty. There're so many things that factor into ordering. It's so complex and it's actually one of the hardest things to do. I'll kind of break it down in a few things.
The first thing you can [do to] break it down is who you look at. When we order, we have a list of LP's that often hit. So for example, organogram, the shred and the caramels and you guys. Certain LP's, you know that anytime they have products, the majority of the product or the brands are good. Then you have some brands where it's like 50/50: 5 things out of their portfolio are good and then they'll have another five that's no good at all. Then you have some LP's where they never hit. They have it maybe once in a blue moon. They have this one skew that you know about and it's a gem. So we break it down into these three groups and we'll just go through it.
We go to the most consistent LPs. We look at their portfolio and then we look at what they got. We look at the people that are 50/50, and we try to dissect that. Then we look at the lowest stuff. We sort it in that way. And then obviously, you look at THC, you look at package dates, you look at Reddit, right? So you take all this information.
I also want to say that bringing things in is important, but just as important is getting things out. It's not so much about bringing products in, but I'm constantly looking at my menu and saying, ‘what do I need to get rid of? What's on this menu that's not working?’ You're gambling, in a sense. When you bring things in, even though it feels good and everything ticks off - it's a good LP, good reviews, good THC, good batch - then you get it in person.
And sometimes it’s just super dry when it comes in. Everything checks off online, it ticks all the boxes. But for some reason when it comes in, it's no good. So there's a physical aspect to it as well. As soon as that happens or we get bad feedback from customers, [it goes] on sale, let's get it out, make room for the next thing. Managing what's coming in and what's going out is super important.
There's the analytical [aspect]: assessing LP's, doing online research, Reddit. Another aspect of it is my staff. There's also the real-life experiment. Like, ‘what are customers saying? What's the market saying? What are my staff saying? What's my manager saying?’
You also have to balance out all these other things like, [for example], partners that like we're working with. You got a partner and then you got to take a look at IRCC, maybe use like some tanning collective. Where can we take advantage of that without compromising our menu? When you look at like RCC stuff, you look at Reddit, you look at what customers saying, you look at what's online, you look at your inventory turnover, things that you got to move out. It's a balancing act.
There's just so many different things you have to take into consideration when you bring in a product. And even then, you could bring in a product, it could be high THC, good batch, good package date, and then the next lot, it could be something totally different. You bring it in, you try to load up four or five cases, and it's a different lot. Now suddenly you're stuck with that and it's not moving like how you thought it was going to move.
One thing that really benefits us as being in the franchise network is that we'll actually call other stores and be like, ‘hey, I see you got this product already. Can you tell me what the package date is? Can you tell me what the THC is? Can you just physically check how it feels like?’ We get that information from another store that has a different order date, and then we can get that info ahead of time. We can try to make a better decision.
We take all this into consideration, and then ultimately, a big part of it too is also the people. The LP's, if there's a rep that I love, we have a great connection, and even the people in the company if I know they're always supporting us. Even if their product is okay, but they’re always reaching out. They support, they say hi. It's a friendly face. They always have a positive attitude, and that goes a long way too. Also an important piece is just knowing the brand and knowing the people behind. Even sometimes just believing in people and doing good by people is also very important.
We can take a little bit more chances because we're higher volume store, whereas if you're a lower volume store you can't gamble as much. For us, we can try different things. We can put things on sale and take a trial-and-error approach.
To sum it all up, look at the LP's, look at the data, the batch date, the package dates, Reddit customers, in-person checks, LP reps, then got like RCC, and stuff like that. I know it's a very complicated and long answer. Running top performing shop means there's a lot going on behind the scenes.”
W: As someone with some experience in building a personal brand, what advice would you give to a young entrepreneur looking to do the same?
“I’d tell them that it’s a lot of work, but it can be the most valuable asset you’ll ever own. Building your own brand is very much about self-awareness and personal development. In today’s attention economy, you can build a personal brand around just about anything - your ideas, interests, beliefs etc. It just takes consistency, hard work, and producing content that gives value to the audience. But most importantly, be authentic and be YOU. Don’t worry so much about how many followers you got, just keep putting out content that is authentic to you and delivers value. Engagement is more important than your following count. And this might seem harsh but to be someone the world wants to follow, you need to have gone through things and have lived experiences that you can share. You need to be interesting! So keep levelling up and continue to be yourself. By doing so, over time you will attract the right people who genuinely like you for who you are.”
W: As you look to the future, what's a milestone you’re looking forward to reaching and how will you celebrate when you reach it?
“Giving is the source of all creation. Let me share with you a hack. The secret to having friends is to be a friend. The secret to being interesting is to be interested. The secret to being loved is to love. It’s GIVING that’ll GIVE you what you want.
Each time I am able to raise the bar of what I can contribute to my environment would be considered a milestone. Being a provider or a facilitator of fun for friends and family gives me joy. Things like being able to fly my friends and family out on vacation on a whim just because, would be a pretty cool feeling. As long as I continue to ascend and grow both personally and professionally, the milestones and dreams will take care of itself. Business is simply the vehicle!"
About Jasper Ly
Jasper Ly is an accomplished entrepreneur in the Canadian cannabis retail sector, known for his role in elevating Spiritleaf Scarborough to one of the market's leading franchises during the early days of legalization. Growing up in Scarborough as part of an immigrant family, Jasper found early success in retail management and franchise development. Under his leadership, Spiritleaf earned several honors, including ADCANN's "National Retailer of the Year" for three consecutive years and recognition in the Canadian Franchise Association’s "Millennials in Franchising." In addition to his retail success, Jasper has founded a consulting business, leveraging his experience to help other cannabis retailers achieve their goals. Check them out on Instagram and find their newsletter here.
